Brian....

People hear what they want to hear. Unfortunately, the FoxBOTS heard this and ran with it.

Its amazing how many people are simply brainwashed by that channel and never seem to want to explore anything other than what the liars on that channel spread as truth.

I hope someone can refute this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch_popup?v=HcBaSP31Be8&vg=medium

Because I put it in the wrong post. Did I hijack your post? I'm so sorry.

What President Obama is missing in his understanding of the Conservative point of view is not that one might think we did anything on our own. We are completely aware that it takes help from others. As a conservative, If I start a business I do it for me, not for someone else. I'd be following my dreams not someone elses and if someone gets something out of that good.

And that's your proof? Something directly off of the Obama propaganda site? Ask any small business owner what they think. Any of them.

I don't know... I see things on that page that I would question. Very bottom center blue box from the first link for one.

This link?
http://www.whitehouse.gov/economy/business/entrepreneurship

Well... I wasn't aware of any people going back to work, much less the economy being strengthened. It's all just slick marketing. You don't believe everything on the web do you Brian? ;-)

I'm absolutely freaking sure Steve has asked ALL small business owners how they feel and speaks for ALL of them. Except the ones that want their employees to have decent health care, but can't afford to pay part of it, so are thrilled that a conservative judge has made that possible.Just like Mittens speaks for "the American people." The ones with Cayman Island tax dodges anyway. Disprove the facts? Conservatives retro actively self deport facts and principles.

Let's see Lee.
http://www.forbes.com/sites/caroltice/2012/07/17/will-small-business-owners-kill-their-companies-to-thwart-obamacare/

http://townhall.com/tipsheet/townhallcomstaff/2012/07/17/thanks_to_obamacare_small_businesses_plan_on_eliminating_jobs_before_2014

http://www.atr.org/four-small-business-tax-hikes-obamacare-a6788

http://hotair.com/archives/2012/05/22/obamacare-small-business-tax-credit-falling-just-a-little-short-of-expectations/

And where in the world do you think this money is coming from to subsidize this nonsense?

As the wife of a small business owner, Steve does speak for me. My husband has downsized and has no intention of upsizing again because it was tough enough before all this coming down the pike. As someone who had to mess with government compliance before, my advice to him was go small and stay small. There is no way he could comply with what is expected of him in the future. I'm guessing many more small business owners feel the same way.

The point is that he was belittling the efforts of every small business owner, whether he intended that or not. Perception is everything.

The insinuation was that whatever success a business owner has achieved, wasnt his, he owes some measure of it to 'someone else'. It plays right into the meme that the rich arent paying their fair share, and justifies the attempt to raise taxes on those very business owners. And you Obamabots fall all over yourselves trying to rationalize it.

Brian, I decided that when the 1099 for purchases over $500 was implemented. I know there was an outcry and it was reversed, but it was implemented for a reason and I have no doubt it will come back in the future - as are many of the other taxes etc. that are necessary under the health care plan. As an engineer, my husband builds large saws for cutting granite - there are so many purchases at around the $500 mark it would have been a nightmare. Since the downturn, sadly most of his work has been re-installing his saws that were repossessed by the banks so he hasn't been manufacturing. He built and sold 83 nationwide and two overseas from 2001 to 2009. In the last three years he hasn't manufactured one. Also, all the talk of VAT - I've worked with VAT before, as has he - another paperwork nightmare. As any small business owner knows, complying with regulations is one of the most difficult parts of a business, payroll, inventory, sales tax - the cost of managing it is an absolute burden. Now there is going to be health care with more returns, and fines and dealing with the IRS. Not worth the effort. Downsize to a single contractor and there is not the same risk of incurring debt just to have to fold when it gets too expensive. Sorry, but for me that is the reality.

I suspect that everyone posting here pays their taxes and doesn't have offshore bank accounts. The same cannot be said about Mitt Romney. It seems to me that paying your taxes to support your country, which includes our men and women in uniform, is a fundamental American responsibility, and that tax cheats like Mitt Romney really are the ones who are unAmerican. The future of the Republic cannot be left to people who play games with money.

Obama is playing games with money, you don't see that?

Sorry - that should be WORK.
Unless your hungry for wok.

Jeff - working hard and making some money is preferable to doing nothing and whining about it. You guys and your "fair share" whine is getting old. Take all of the 1% wealth. How long will that run the country? It is nothing more than a distraction from the disaster called the Obama administration. By the way, you democracy advocates are getting your way - the majority (the whiners) out-number the producers. Mob rule, baby! do your research on our type of government.

One other item, Jeff. Why is always the people with wealth that is the problem?
If you want all Americans to work together for the common good, than why don't you advocate everyone pitch in with hard work and pay something in taxes. Why don't you encourage everyone that depends on income redistribution for their livelihood to do their "fair share" and work? It works both ways.

First - if you were mega-rich, would you not look for ways to keep as much as possible? With that said, these wealthy do pay quite a bit in taxes. Might not be as high of rate as you would like, but they still pay large sums. If the Obama (and other) administrations were serious about stopping the off-shore practice, the tax code should be cleaned up to encourage these folks to bring their capital back into the country. Same goes for corporate taxes - they need to be lowered similar to other western countries. Until incentives are put into play, the banks in the islands will do well.

Also - how are the laws "rigged" to penalize poor people?

There are not two sets of laws.
All Americans are subject to and beholden to the same laws. We are a country of law. That is why your democracy argument is flawed. Anyway, I agree the wealthy (and not so wealthy) will take advantage of the tax code to keep as much wealth as possible. Your argument should be with Congress and not the taxpayer.

I do find it interesting that in Obama's world, business owners couldn't have possibly done anything on their own. But he got Bin Laden. All by himself. Just ask him....

What do you expect?
Republicans tend to have the same view of thing s that taxpayers do.
Why do you think democrats are growing in popularity? They want to reward people for poor their decisions and poor work ethic.

When has context mattered in politics? Especially in the "instant information age" of sound bytes?

It was a monumentally stupid thing to say and the other side naturally pounced on the quote. Politics as usual. If they can use your own words against you they will

So if I understand President Obama correctly, if someone owns a business and it fails. The owner did not fail but everyone else failed the owner including the government. Am I correct?

Brian's columns and the comments after it give me hope that Georgia is not lost to the extreme conservative right.
When I was in Savannah the Memorial on River Street says "Freedom from Want" among all the freedoms listed for America. There was actually a day in our history when we took pride in the idea that American's did not want. That we took care of our own. Today the theme seems to be, "I earned this and I don't want to pay for someone else." And this from the same people that claim America is a Christian nation.
I just want to add that it is so important that we get out and VOTE, and help someone else get to the polls too. I heard on the radio this morning that democrats out number republican's nationally by 7%. But Republicans have a higher percentage turnout at the polls.
Its all well and good to voice our opinions on line. But we aren't going to change anyone's mind. The only thing we can do is get out the vote, and prove them wrong by the success of the policies we are endorsing.

Romney's income is derived from capital gains. What is the current capital gains rate?
Why isn't it fair? Is 3 million not enough?
I own a sales rep agency. Sub S. Everything passes through to my personal. I pay a hell of a lot in taxes. I'm tired of people wanting more.

I believe President Obama mis-spoke, he meant to say " If you are a politician..."

So Sharon, you are objecting to a tax that no longer exists, but might, so it's the President's fault? The economy collapsed, as it always does, with a Republican in the White House. And Republicans mismanaging Georgia. Then the Commies are coming for your guns? Pay your taxes Steve, or maybe post the name of the country you prefer that has lower taxes, less regulation, and more freedom. For lower US taxes you could self deport 40-50 years, I guess. CSA could retroactively secede and attack again. But that terrorists tactic didn't work that well.

Lee, I didn't say anything about which office or president I hold responsible. Just gave the facts, as per my tax returns. However, anybody who tried to implement that 1099 nightmare didn't understand much about how small business operate. The good news is the objections from those who did caused them to rethink it. Let's hope it stays that way.

What I do see here, from both sides of the aisle, is nobody is quoting personal experience - just talking points. Shows just how successful these propaganda machines can be. Instead of going to personal experience, people would rather listen to arguments from political spin instead of applying their own life experiences.

Anecdotal evidence can be manipulated pretty easily. But the Dow Jones numbers, GDP, housing starts, corporate profits, and the end of the war to find atomic bombs are not anecdotes. They are facts. And they all are better than they were in 2008. Oh, and taxes are at a 50 year low. If there is another country with a brighter future, conservatives should show us all where it is. By the way, the data on climate change is pretty easy to find. One June in Georgia is an anecdote. The five hottest summers on record in the last ten years, receding ice sheets and glaciers, rising sea level, and fluctuations between extremes are facts.

The whole point or argument about climate change is whether it's man made or not.
It's my opinion that it's not man made, but that's whole different discussion.

The bottom line is this: No one trusts the administration to say or do anything that isn't politically expedient. He is in campaign mode. Pure and simple. The end.

Interesting discussion. I'll go with personal experience. I have never felt so broke in my life. I didn't feel this way in any year before 2009. In fact, since 2009, it seems my situation has gotten worse. Almost every dime of my net income goes toward household expenses and nothing more.
I don't mind that people in poverty don't pay income taxes, but, I DO MIND that money is taken from me to give to them. I keep hearing "redistribution of wealth." I have NO wealth, I only have income, which is not the same as wealth. Romney has wealth--even Obama has wealth. But me? not so far, anyway

It's time for a change no matter what you think.........period. CHANGE, CHANGE THE PRESIDENT.

Sean and Sharon, you're singing my song! We all know that propaghanda is easy to perpetuate since data can be manipulated. I'm not wealthy either, yet, I went and got an education so that I could get a raise, and sure as I did, my insurance premiums went up (so i make less in my paycheck), the tax cuts for the county expired too (so, less again in my paycheck). So, I now make way less than I did before (plus, school loans to pay back), yet supposedly this is supposed to help people in my bracket. I make 25k a year. Those that think that robbing the rich is going to get it, surely have their blinders on and earmuffs on tight. They dont want to hear the truth! It DOES and WILL affect the middle and lower class. It has already started.

What would be great Sharon, is to hear from business owners that are suffering or holding onto their assets for fear of what is going to happen.

This just in...

http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/19/politics/senate-bring-jobs-home-bill-blocked/index.html

NGW, you said something that struck a chord. I heard something the other day in effect that when the givers give all, there's nothing left to give-or something like that. I wish I had written it down. I found a few quotes that bring to light what conservative are trying to say. Here's one on government control from a founding father- "To compel a man to furnish contributions of money for the propagation of opinions which he disbelieves and abhors, is sinful and tyrannical." – Thomas Jefferson
"Socialist governments traditionally do make a financial mess. They always run out of other people’s money." -- Margaret Thatcher
"In capitalism wealth is created faster than it's consumed; in socialism it's the other way around." -- Rick Gaber
" You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy out of freedom...You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."
The "blame game" makes me laugh. It's not just Republicans that filibuster everything etc... Even a large number of Democrats in congress blocked the health care bill.
Also, speaking of the nanny state- What's scary is that people will toe a party line (espousing everything they hear as gospel even when it isn't) to their destruction even if everything is falling all around them as proof. How 'bout a chicken in every pot? Sound familiar? When you have more consumers than producers, you have to rely totally on the government.

I have this kitten, or really young feral cat, outside that my neighbor spoke me into helping her feed. Apparently my food is good, because after three days, he or she began coming to the back of my house at sundown to wait for the food. Anyone who read some of my columns when I was at the Walton Tribune will remember Tigger, the feral kitten that I did the same with - until he trusted me enough to trap him. He now lives inside my house and is never allowed out, but I comfort myself with the fact that he has a warm bed and good food to make up for the freedoms he lost. My son refers to the new feral cat as my next welfare kitty. My husband would probably move out if I ever brought another one inside, but I do see the analogy.

Actually, if nature is a picture of realities in our world, this consumer / producer thing is a scary reality. Did you know that if consumers outnumbered producers the producers would become extinct? I was looking up economics on that principle but came across some wiki information on nature. Scary to think that could become our nation.

Brian, I too have used government assistance. I don't think that is the issue. Welfare is a temporary solution not a way of life. Sharon was talking about a large segment of society that has become dependent on welfare (encouraged by the government). We are now embarking on a second generation who is coming of age. Will it carry over into a third? That, sir is a problem and isn't helped when government makes it more profitable to do so. Reagan believed in the pursuit of success for all who strive to attain it. Government should be a cheerleader who give a leg up when needed, not a continually stream of handouts with no responsibility tied to it. It's bigger than that. The current policies, which sound good on paper, have been proven to enslave and capsize rather than liberate people to pursue their dreams.

Large segment of society? Where? Most states, including Georgia, have a lifetime cap on welfare benefits of 48 months. That hardly qualifies as a generation.

Brian, your wife used welfare as it was intended and I absolutely commended her for doing so. I know many people who have done that. I also know many who have managed to stretch that 48 months - mainly through disability programs - to a lifestyle - for life. Some have even managed to pass it down to the next generation as a permanent way of life. Disability too is a great program when used for its intended purpose. The problem is, when it is handled from such a distance, these programs are so easy to manipulate.

Oh.. and here's something to read about Obama's outsourcing...
http://www.eagleforum.org/publications/column/2012-07-18.html

Feral cats? There's a new one. People without jobs are feral cats. When the world economy collapses (don't ever ask why, ignore that it hasn't recovered yet, it's in the ancient past) and government helps those who had no part in the reason for the collapse, they are idiot wild creatures, lacking any redeeming quality. Oh, that's entirely reasonable. No Steve, the discussion among climate scientists is how much the changes are caused by man, to quantify them, and how to predict what will happen, not if.

Brian, really? have you ever met people who abuse the system? I have. Been working with that popualtion for 20 years. I know what I'm talking about. I'm not talking about consecutive months. I'm talking about the next generation that was raised in it, and rathr than bettering themselves, simply jumps on the dole. Sharon asked for personal experiences. I know way too many that do this and it's sad.

At least that's clear, Sharon. You will feed the real feral cats, but the metaphorical ones can crawl away to die without your help, Your own logic would indicate you should let the real ones die too.

I guess we're on a different plane here - and I really have been where you are. For me, however, I see things from a different perspective now and the logic where I am now makes more sense to me. However, I absolutely believe and respect everyone's point of view and welcome the healthy debate. I appreciate your contributions and wouldn't hope to change your mind to see it my way.

Ok, I'll feed the cats out in the yard (six, shared by nine homeowners, more or less)and pay my taxes. And hope Bush III doesn't get any power at all.

hey jimmy how you feeling bout that 2nd amendment now. I am all for gun control.

"I'm a Pro 2nd Amendment......anyone with half a brain understands that it is not the gun that decides to kill but the person...."

"........And one or two people carrying concealed could have ended that problem right after it started......he targeted that theatre because it is "their policy" to allow NO GUNS in the cinema....the perp knew this......"

. Brian, I do resent people like you that make assumptions without even knowing a person. Your train of thought is why no one can hold a real conversation with a liberal. Do you know me? I GO TO those people on my own time. I hold them while they cry, I feed them. You didn't know that, did you? I also talk to them as they tell me how THEY resent people who abuse the system because it makes it so much harder for them to get out of poverty. Why? Because they have family members who commit crimes and live off the system. I work (voluntarily) with the people who do NOT abuse it, and need it. Once the system has helped, I also work with people who help these people get a job. One (a Mom of five) has just started college. But, for a living, I work on the crime end where I watch people brag about how they scammed the system, and my job is to try to change the mindset of, what did karsten call it, the " entitlement mentality". Here's a direct quote from one of my charges, "they OWE me". This person committed armed robbery against an innocent person. So, Brian, until you have any experience beyond reading liberal rags, you come and talk to me. I may not know a lot about economics, but I do know people, and I do know how the system HURTS them rather than helps them when there is no incentive to do better.

Again speaking from personal experience, my stepson was given a voter ID when he turned 18. At that time he was a legal green card holder, but not a U.S. citizen. Having been through the process myself, and very concerned that nothing interfered with his ability to become a U.S. citizen when the time came, I wanted to make sure there was no ability for anybody to accuse him of perjuring himself on his citizenship application. So when he got his voter registration in the mail, I made sure we had it reversed and corrected in the records. One of the things that disqualifies you for citizenship is having voted illegally as a U.S. citizen. You have to swear on the application that you have never done so. The fact that someone incorrectly registered him as a voter put that in jeopardy. It just makes sense to ensure that everyone voting is legally in a position to do so - many are not. The Georgia Secretary of State corrected the error and he was able to honestly check that block on his citizenship application form when he became a citizen 5 years later. We don't let anyone vote in a city limit if they don't live in that city limit, but for some reason country borders are not such a big deal.

So many things to address:
a) In the 1960 election, one TX precinct had more people vote for Kennedy than there were registered voters. That was not the only one. There is no evidence of an organized process of voter fraud--that doesn't mean that there isn't any. When we get a driver's license, we're asked if we want to register to vote.The same happens at the library. A noncitizen might reasonably expect that that means he can vote. IMO, one instance of fraud is too many..
b) Someone mentioned the 2nd generation on welfare--I contend it's more like 4 or 5 generations--ever since the Depression. We should be "teaching folks to fish instead of giving them fish."
c) Every time I look to see what jobs are available, I see TONS of jobs. So, I've decided that there are jobs, just not jobs for people with zero skills. Which means, those who quit school and don't try to better themselves end up with no jobs. So we need to fix something there.
d) Anyone under the age of 60 or so has no excuse for having no skills.Everyone has had the opportunity to graduate from high school and then go on. I know the schools aren't exactly equal, but a diploma does count for something, There is a culture that says school is stupid, people who go to school are stupid ... etc we need to fix that culture. Sounds like we should be teaching life skills to a lot of people who didn't get them at home or at school.

Brian, you still don't understand. Throwing money at it is not the answer- just a bandaid. I do agree we need to do more to work towards better solutions. But if I see a system that is hurting people more than helping them, I am not cursing the people, I am cursing the system that needs to be changed - not eliminated (which is what I feel you are insinuating). That, I do because I do love those people. You are simply so enamoured with the system, that you seem (in my opinion) blinded to finding a better solution. I'll find the stats on how many got OFF assistance, and onto independence after Clinton's (and the Republican congress) worked together towards a better solution for welfare. One instance where the two opposing teams worked together. Btw...I worked in one of the safety nets of aftercare. Some people want help, and some do not want to change. You can't legislate people into doing right. You've got to roll up your sleeves and get in there and help them get out and stay healthy and strong once they get on their own two feet. If you want to throw gov't money somewheree, throw it at the aftercare programs. They get cut all the time. You strike me as one of those people that cry "Republicans want people to die! Republicans want dirty air and water!" Really. Dare to hear what people are saying and work WITH them instead of throwing talking points at them and refusing to budge an inch. To be continued...

A reminder, if you want to talk partisanship, that it is on paper that Republicans give MORE to charity than Democrats. Prop up some of those charities and help them out sometime. The goal is to get people off assistance so they can have a renewed sense of purpose, possibly even become business owners and realize their dreams... oh wait, I've heard that before...oh yeah, life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Ask anyone who has climbed out of that trap.They are a breath of fresh air and become the greatest contributors to society. A good solution would be something Herman Cain campaigned on. He said the problem is that gov't. makes it too easy to stay on assistance. You can make more in some instances on assistance than working. Something wrong with that. I don't have a problem with assistance, but do have a problem with a system that creates a mentality of complacency.

"What she posts from the perspective as one in the trenches should be given weight.
It’s commonly referred to as the disconnect of the “ideal” concept vs. reality and exactly WHY fixes take so long, because no one really wants to acknowledge the need to do so…"

Thanks R. Until you've worked in it, you don't understand it. It all looks good on PAPER. But when you deal with the actual people, you find it's like trying to change the mind of a toddler to like broccoli more than potatoe chips. It's just not that easy. Some people are so discouraged that it's easier to take the easy way out. That's where volunteer work comes in. LIFE SKILLS are both taught and caught. And that takes time. Those who have the loudest opinions are less likely to be the ones who will actually get into those trenches and be a part of the solution. Not always, but too large a segment of society. It's easier to read a liberal rag for opinions and "truth" than to be open minded and work with others towards real solutions.

Question... how did people live before welfare?

Regarding taxes, the wealthy and their fair share, the working poor and whether they pay any taxes . . . it should be considered how much one has left to live on. A millionaire or billionaire has a whole lot left after paying whatever percentage, be it 28%, 35% or less than 15% (hello Mr. Romney). The single parent, after paying whatever percentage is determined to be owed, is left running out of money between paychecks after trying to cover the basics.

Nice try, but Obama's words of inciting division and class warfare are what they are. He is trying to get elected, and his main strategy is to push more and more towards making "middle class" an entitlement, and to vilify those who are successful.

Why mention millionaires and billionaires when discussing tax policy or economic policy? Even if the government taxed the rich at 75% it would not make a meaningful dent in the deficit spending. The only thing it accomplishes is to incite class warfare and division.

The problem with entitlement is it creates a larger deficit in the short term, and more people dependent on the government in the long term. Safety nets and help to the poor should be in place. There must be an incentive to work out of it, however, otherwise human nature is such that if you can get for free what you would normally have to work for you will.

Socialism and union controlled labor forces don't work in the global economy. Europe can testify of that fact. Why the Democrats want to go down that path is beyond me.

What is needed in this country is a REDUCTION in government spending, meaning a reduction in government size. Until politicians are willing to put the interest of the country in front of the interest of their parties or themselves we will continue to be in this mess.

Excellent recitation Bob! However, the notion of "class warfare" in today's political talk is a purely Republican construct. So Obama wants to divide the 1% and the 99%? Hardly makes sense. Obama has never uttered a word that denigrates success or the wealthy. The division in America is driven by the Limbaughs, Becks, Hannitys and other GOP mouthpieces.

What is needed in this country is a return to policies that favor the middle class and American job creation.

http://www.foxbusiness.com/on-air/willis-report/blog/2012/07/20/obama-put-more-people-welfare

I read everything, not just FOX. Your assumptions are invalid. You know nothing about me or what I know and therefore your judgement and opinion of me means nothing.

Class warfare is actually a marxian term. Apparently been around for a few wars.

Sharon, if you open your door, you'll have to chase after your cat to get it back in until it's cold and/or rainy. Not saying you didn't benefit the kitty, but not an even value comparison to human beings. So, would you do away with government aid to the disabled? For people who paid into SS and find their work lives stopped short because of illness or injury? Churches and charities are not equipped to take care of all who are in need. They are funded by voluntary contributions. People have to pay their own bills and feed their families before they may be able to contribute much, if any. Some folks, no matter how well off, don't contribute to anything but their own luxury. Combined efforts of public and private dollars take care of a lot more people in need.

Tim, if your post and Ed's post don't violate the Patch's Terms of Use, then nothing violates the Patch's Terms of Use. You're going too far. You don't publicly disrespect our President, NO MATTER WHO HE IS.

Please note, while we welcome healthy debate, our terms of use to not allow for the use of offense language or personal attacks. Please review our terms of use before posting.

Perhaps it's a good thing that I didn't say what I really think about "Your President" because he certainly is not Mine!

Then who "is" your president, Tim?

I think it is the way he says things- lots of negative language. He needs new speech writers; the same message worded differently might have been better received by the entrepreneurs among us who were not only smart and hard-working (which a lot of people are, I agree) but also had visions and took risks many wouldn't.

Any Repulblican since and including Ronald Reagan.....and Mitt Romney.

Oh, so reality doesn't impede on your definition of President of the United States of America. I see. Why stop at a dead past preseident, or a man never elected to the office? Why not say Superman is your president? Or John Wayne?

We really appreciate all the civil discussion here, but do strictly enforce our user terms. Rather than inhibit the discussion, we will suspend users whose comments continue to violate our terms. Please remember that when posting.

I've decided to quit while I'm ahead (hopefully). One thing you can say about Brian is that he brings a "lightening rod" with him when he chooses his discussion matter lol He should win for most reponses!

Yea, we probably owe him a luncheon for keeping our discussions interesting. :)

It's all garbage. No one is ever going to agree, this discussion could go on forever and nothing would be accomplished and this is the very problem in our country now. No one wants to do what's right for this country, it's all about politics. Point fingers, point blame, make accusations, stab someone in the back. I've totally lost faith in this country and the people that run it. This is nothing like the country I grew up in and never will be again.

Brian might be sitting back smiling at all the stuff he stirred up but all he did (does) is further divide this country each time he post. Brian, the way you say things is no different than the way Obama says things.

And please don't talk to me about disrespecting our President. THAT my friend is one of OUR RIGHTS and you won't take that away from me. And no, he doesn't represent me, never has represented me, and never will represent me.

Amen there NGW....right there with you!

We must have entirely different definitions of rights. As far as I know, no one has the right to disrespect anyone. I can't imagine you'd be so accepting of me using my "right" to disrespect your mother. And what exactly is so awful about President Obama that makes him unable to represent you? Is it his growing up without a father? Is it his mother's death at a young age? Is it his being raised by his grandparents? Is it his abality to overcome these events and attend one of the most respected schools in our nation? Is it his faithful and loving relationship with his first and only wife? Is it his polite and loving daughters? Why would you not want someone so accomplished and respectable representing you? Take the name "Obama" off of the things I listed, replace it with one with an (R) after it, and you'd be proud to be represented with by this person. Tim already said as much when he said his president is "Any Repulblican since and including Ronald Reagan.....and Mitt Romney." That's so childish. Whatever happened to "If you don't respect the man, respect the office"? Whether you like it or not, President Obama does represent you, and the American dream. He cam from humble beginings and worked hard to achieve something never done before. I thought that's what our country was all about. It's sad that it takes events like 911 to make people forget such petty political division and remind us we are all Americans and more similar than different.

It's called freedom of speech Isley... and I do respect the office, just not the person.
I'm done with this conversation.

I know what it's called, North Georgia Weather. However, I still find your respect for freedom of speech to be extremely situational. If you value freedom of speech so much, I could call your mother some awful names, to her face, in front of you, and you'd simply say, "Come along, Mother, it's his freedom of speech." I don't know you, North Georgia Weather, but I really doubt that would be your response. You still haven't explained why you don't respect President Obama. I think you're right, perhaps you should be done with this conversation. There have been presidents I have not voted for, but I never went out of my way to disrespect them. Show me someone who truly believes a man/woman can run for president and not have the nation's best interest at heart, and I'll show you an immature individual prone to conspiracy theories. People from opposing political parties do not want to destroy America, make people dependent on government, take away your guns, or any of the other bizarre notions people seems to float. They simply have a different opinion of what/how things need to be fixed to improve the nation. They get their time in office, then someone else gets thier turn at tackling the same problems. That's democracy. If you don't like that, I recommend finding a nation that has a monarchy or dictatorship. For those of you that want religion to play a central role in government, lower taxes, and strong conservative values, I suggest you check out Afghanistan.

First, I never saw the post someone made that obviously was taken down so I have no idea what as said.

MY POINT is I have the right to free speech. If I don't like my president, I have the right to say that. If I don't believe in my president I have the right to say that. If I don't like what my president does, I have the right to say that.

If you want to bow down to your supreme leader, go to Syria.

This thread discussion is very long, and I'm not trying to keep it going, just reply to someone who addressed me directly. There was no reply button after her comment: @Jessica Eng...so, if you're poor, you probably need that earned income federal tax credit to help with your local and state sales tax, auto tag/tax, property tax (maybe), to pay basic living expenses for your family. If you don't need it or don't think you deserve it, don't want it, then don't keep it, but most others are grateful. Our Senators and Representatives are elected on the local/state level to go to Washington to run the business of this nation, not just for their own states' interests - the United States of America. They're sent there to represent their constituents but also to work TOGETHER on the nation's problems - you know, because we're the UNITED States of America. We have many common issues. They don't just get to go there for pork and earmarks for their home states. Well, they do that, which is a huge part the problem. For too many, it's me, me, me and mine, mine, mine.

You just talked out of both side of your mouth. POLITICIANS are the problem. They forget who they represent once they get elected and start playing the political game. At that point they forget about you and I and and jump on the Democratic/Republican politics train and so long.... I'm sure they all start with good intentions but it doesn't last for long.

Politicians are exactly who gave you freedom of speech. You have the freedom to offer nothing but, "I don't like Obama." There is some truth to what you post. Politicians lie. They always have, it's one of the tools they use to get elected. Unless they are named Jefferson Davis, who was not elected. Politics isn't perfect. Neither is life. Each person picks the side they think lies the least. That's why Brian bugs you, he picked well and can defend his pick.

No, what bugs me is that everyone picks a side and neither side is 100% correct. THAT's what bugs me. And I also believe that this president has done more to divide this country than bring it together.

And I don't have to defend my position for president to anyone.

And one more thing... my freedom of speech was given to me by our FOUNDING FATHERS, not our politicians.

Any elected officials among those FF's? You don't have to criticize the President just because he's president either. There may just be a "can't" in there somewhere.

So, Lee, what do you do for a living? I would bet you work for us. When was the last time you gave blood? When was the last time you gave time or money to charity? What are you doing for the common good?

So, Mike, you believe President Obama would run for president, open himself and his family up to all of the scrutiny, death threats, and hatred such a decision involves, to lead a nation he is not loyal to? Really? Doesn't that sound a little ridiculous when said out loud? If it doesn't allow me to play your game, too. I believe Mitt Romney, who's Mexican father was born and raised on a polygamist commune, wants to become president so he can force us into Mormonism. He wants us to have multiple wives and wear Mormon underwear. If this weren't true, he would release his taxes, but he won't because he has been donating large sums of money to the secret Mormon army. An organization bent on making Americans follow the Mormon doctrine from the barrel of a gun. Vote for Obama, convert to Mormonism, or die! Those are your choices this election. You don't believe me? Well you should, I'm a small business owner!

Truthfully, this discussion has rattled on long enough. Let's talk about something else. Join me at The Sunday Liberal Reader (shameless self promotion):

http://dacula.patch.com/blog_posts/the-sunday-liberal-reader-july-22

Update: To put a cap on this, the Romney campaign continues to lie shamelessly about what Obama said. The brazenness of this boggles the mind as Ezra Klein points out here: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/vp/48294948#48294948

And as if any further evidence was needed that FOX has shed all pretense of being an objective news source and become a 24/7 mouthpiece for the Romney campaign, they are now using little girls to attack the President: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/24/fox-and-friends-lemonade-stand_n_1697665.html

LOL!!! Little girls know more than the president! HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

So, the snotty nosed brat Ezra Klein and MSNBC are a more reliable AND non-biased news source than Fox. Brian, why do you make such sophomoric comments?

RL, you make a good point. Brian, any parent knows children look at things more simply and therefor, in my opinion, sometimes more clearly.
Parents are the key to successful Americans, not teachers, not the government. Teachers should not be burdened with raising a child, parents should. Teachers should only be asked to enrich minds. Work ethic should come from home, not expected to be taught in school.
Are there crappy parents, heck yes. Why, because the government has taken the burden of being good parents off the public's back. There are no consequences for being a crappy parent. Any two idiots with a penis and a vulva can create life, that, my friends, is the problem.

Brian - Klein is "respected" - by fellow liberals.
This guy is a huge lib. What do you expect him to say?
Policy wonk in DC = he drinks lots of liberal kool-aid.
Start using more "respected" sources.

LOL.....thanks for the link Brian. It just truly shows how childishly, stupid and desperate Fox is with their political propaganda...they should be so ashamed. This just truly puts an official seal on Fox's stupidity...seriously "Lemonade Stand"? Can we start a petition to stop allowing other human beings to put such shame on the human race. These poor children are simply following their parents...it's so sad. One little girl's comment "It's rude" LMBO..what little girl really cares? The only thing this is worth is providing great content for a parody..