I'm curious as to why you single out the GOP in the debt ceiling debate? Who is more to blame, those who want to keep spending or those who want to spend less?
What does the word 'ceiling' mean to you? And if you're not going to abide by it, why have it in the first place?

Of course, it is ideological - you either want less government (like our republic was intended) and more personal freedom to pursue (or not) your goals in life. Or, you like big government that has the ability to confiscate through taxes one's efforts and redistribute to those that do not deserve one penny, dictate (through legislation like ACA) one's behavior and enjoy the servitude to that government. Basically, the producers (the former) vs the moochers (the latter). Yes, it is ideology. Fortunately, some republicans still base their beliefs on something similar to the original intent. So, you like depending on others for you livelihood probably like the criminal cabal in charge right now. Myself, and fortunately many others, like our independence and are tired of seeing that independence slowly eroded by onerous government oversight.

It is okay because for years we have been paying for healthcare for those people who NEED (have not choice but) to spend money on such things and those who do not purchase insurance because they feel their money is better spent on such things. As I tell my children in some circumstances regarding personal matters, "I pay one way or another."

Good lord Dave, how many times do we have to go over this. The idea of the "individual mandate" along with insurance subsides for the working poor was invented by the grandfather of all conservative think tanks,The Heritage Foundation, over a decade ago. Since that time congressional Republicans have submitted numerous health care bills including those ideas. The GOP candidate for President implemented the blueprint for Obamacare, which also included these ideas, when he was Governor of Massachusetts. Republicans were quite proud of it at the time. Are you saying all of these folks were income re-distributors. The ultimate goal of universal health care is to lower costs for everyone.

I guess we're going to have to keep going over it until you liberals realize that it is not the purview of the federal government to make ME pay for YOUR healthcare. Have you read the 10th amendment lately? I doubt it. If Massachussetts voters wanted to do it in their state, thats their business. Even if a conservative think tank 'invented' the idea that doesnt make it right ( a claim I strongly doubt because liberals have been trying to do it for a lot longer than a decade- remember Hillarycare in the early '90's?).

@Jimmy. Until the ACA the individual mandate did not enjoy wide support among democrats and it was not a feature of Hillarycare. In fact it was part of the Republican answer to Hillarycare. This was the Republican plan for health care reform up until the day Obama endorsed it. If a Republican president had proposed this you would no doubt be lapping it up.

By the way, most Liberals aren't thrilled with the mandate either. We would much rather see a single payer Medicare for all approach but we were willing to compromise, something conservatives have forgotten how to do.

http://healthcarereform.procon.org/view.resource.php?resourceID=004182

http://healthcarereform.procon.org/sourcefiles/1992_heritage_consumer_choice_health_plan.pdf

Then you would be wrong Brian...I would be just as opposed to the Orwellian named Affordable Care Act if a republican president had done it. I was opposed to Bush's prescription drug plan...The reason you liberals "compromised" on not getting your single payer plan is because you know that in a few years that is what this morph into...As companies discover its cheaper to pay the fine than provide the insurance, eventually everybody will be on the government plan...except those Obama and Sebelius deem worthy of a waiver. All animals are created equal, but some are more equal than others...

Hi Jimmy, And why should I pay for education when I do not have children in the school system? Just saying! Why should I vote for a tax increase to support transportation when I don't have a car and am unable to get to regional or local transportation, if I live long enough for that to come into existence? Just saying!

Msg, maybe you should spend a little less time 'just sayin' and a little more time 'just thinkin'...if you dont have a car, dont vote for the tax increase. If you dont have kids in school then dont vote for the school tax increase either. At least you get to vote on it. I'm still waiting for my opportunity to vote on the obamacare tax increases.

"Even if a conservative think tank 'invented' the idea that doesn't make it right ( a claim I strongly doubt because liberals have been trying to do it for a lot longer than a decade-" Jimmy

Liberals have been trying to pass some type of health care bill for 75, yes seventy-five years. Boy does it take a long time for them to accomplish something! Just saying! :-) LOL

http://www.masslive.com/mitt-romney-archive/index.ssf/2012/04/mitt_romney_signs_massachusetts_health_care_law.html

"Surrounded by leaders of the state Legislature including U.S. Sen. Edward M. Kennedy during a ceremony at Faneuil Hall, Romney hailed the law as an achievement that occurs only once in a generation.
'Today, Massachusetts is leading the way with health insurance for everyone, without a government takeover and without raising taxes,' Romney said.
The governor vetoed a $295-per-employee assessment on companies with 11 or more full-time workers that don't offer and contribute to their employees' health insurance. Romney said the assessment was unnecessary and counter-productive."

Romney-Kennedy Health Care Bill Signing (Listen to how affectionately he introduces Senator Kennedy) ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4iTtNGjFY4 BTW, I think Senator Kennedy may be holding a gun to Governor Romney's head.

Just saying! Problem is, I think too much, e.g. about how you guys crack me up! LOL.

Hey Lee, at least conservatives aren't moochers.
What is like to be so smug?

Sherilu, we all realize we are already paying for many poor folks health care, and at outrageous "concession stand" prices. ObamaTax makes the prices even worse and the system way worse. It drives doctors to leave the system, imposes dehumanizing rationing, and creates hundreds of new bureaucracies where even more oceans of money will go straight down the drain. And they are hiring new IRS agents like crazy right now.

You think healthcare is expensive now? Just wait they get their gov't hooks in you - you'll be crying for the "good old days".

It would have been a far wiser, more humane, and much cheaper move to simply pay Walmart to provide medical care for the poor, and get the gov't completely OUT of the insurance and healthcare business.

Joe, I'm sorry but none of your fears about the ACA are true. The CBO projects that it will lower costs and it improves on our current system in many ways. There is no dehumanizing rationing, no hundreds of new bureaucracies and no evidence that it will cause doctors to flee the health care system. The health care and insurance industries have spent millions of dollars stoking such unfounded fears because they will no longer be able to gouge health care consumers and the ACA will no doubt cut into their profits.

Amen! I posted on another conversation that I was in the ER at the behest of my cardiologist, even though I protested going there, and hours later when I was hungry and asked about food I was asked if I wanted their stale sandwich or something else was mentioned. I opted for the "stale" sandwich, which tasted very good at that point. That particular hospital was no longer providing a hot meal because people were coming into the ER with complaints in order to get a meal. Now that's sad, very sad that anyone has to resort to that. That was an expensive meal, which was paid for by ME and YOU!

I just scrolled down and started reading Joe Cley's comments which are unfounded; as I said a few minutes ago, spread ignorance.

David, as a Bible-believing Christian, I am troubled by your comment. I find it pompous and selfish. Your comment sounds like Neal Boortz and Ayn Rand. It doesn't sound like the Jesus of the Bible. God makes it clear in the Bible that His heart is toward the poor, not the wealthy. We have a responsibility to use a portion of our abundance to help other people. I have no problem helping someone buy health insurance who cannot afford to buy it on their own.

I don't know Neal Boortz or Ayn Rand. Never heard anything they ever spoke or wrote. I haven't even heard the name Ayn Rand. I think the Neal guy is a local radio personality but I don't listen to local radio. Strictly a 60's on 6 XM station kinda guy. But I'm glad to hear you're willing to pick up the check. I'm a Bible-believing Christian too. But no where in the Bible does it say stand around with your hand out and expect others to provide for you. Be willing to help yourself and you get help from me. Expect me to help you and I'll watch you starve.

Selfish? Yep, that could be a description of me. I worked hard for my money and I don't plan to give it away to worthless individuals. But if I were the braggart type, I would tell you about all the people I have helped. People that helped themselves but needed a step up. But that's between me and God and really none of your business.

Thanks! I cannot tell you how many times I have wanted to puke when someone stared me in the eyes and said, "I'm a Christian, but." It always sounds as if they are defending themselves. I believe that you do not have to tell me you are a Christian; show me. Remember, "Actions speak louder than words."

Wow, "Give to everyone who begs from you, and if anyone takes away your goods do not ask them again". Are you kidding me. Take that attitude to downtown Atlanta along with your pocketbook and all your possessions. Oh, and no need to lock your front door when you are away-just let anyone take what they want, don't call the police and do not ask for any items to be returned. Please keep us updated on how that works out for you and your family.

Hmmmmm, "take that attitude to DOWNTOWN ATLANTA," what does that imply? No need to take it into Atlanta, just look around your immediate environment. I am a Christian, but.........

Msgoff, not the racial implication dripping from your all caps quote. Have you ever been to downtown Atlanta? I am a native Atlantan. The aggressive panhandlers in many areas are ruining business, and tourism. While tailgating at a Falcon's game with some out of town guests, a panhandler came up to one of my guest and asked for some money. My friend gave him a couple of dollars, but when he opened his wallet the beggar saw he had some $10's and $20's. Then he demanded more money. We had to call over an APD officier to get the guy to leave us alone. Why don't you and Sherilu drive down there with a handful of cash. They'll love you till the cash is gone.

Ross, the trademark of a liberal is their generosity. With other people's money...

Well thank god for football Ross, with out it you could just pretend the poor don't exist.

Brian, if I didn't work my tail off I'd be poor. If those folks begging for handouts would take personal responsibility, oh I forgot. you're a liberal. No need to go on with my "personal responsibility" lecture as it would be wasted on you. And God is spelled with a capital G, not god. Dang, forgot you libs probably don't believe in God either.

Actually, since I was using it colloquially the small "g" is acceptable. Got any more Liberal stereotypes you want to get off your chest?

Ross, that's your interpretation; I only asked "What does that imply?" Naww, I don't go downtown, I stay out here where it is safe. As for Sherilu and me "driving down there with a handful of cash," no way; we're smarter than that (to have a handful of cash). I don't give money to panhandlers anyway. I help in other ways. As a matter of fact, I carry about $5 because that's usually all that I have. Besides, I don't have a car to get down there because one of the children I don't have is driving the Benz that I don't own.

Maybe you and all the other people who want somebody else to pay for your healthcare could move to one of the countries that already has free healthcare, like England or Canada...then when you are sitting in a waiting room for your appt months after you really needed it, you can log on to the Patch and tell us how well its working out for you.

As a dual citizen (born and lived in Canada), I can assure you that medical coverage in the US, regardless of how you pay for it, is thousands of times better than in Canada. Unless it's an emergency, get in line. Something as simple as a colonoscopy takes a minimum of three months to schedule. Need non-emergency surgery (tonsillectomy or something similar)? Not going to happen this year.

Lee, if you go to Canada and wait like David just described, maybe in the interim they will find a cure for that smug know-it-all attitude that seems to come so naturally to those, like you, who have their hand out...USA. I love it. You and you're ilk are screwing it up. If Scotland was so good, why dont you go back? As we like to say down here, Delta is ready when you are.

If you like it so much, why don't you go back. We certainly need you or your ilk here.

The wait for health care in Canada may be long because more people have access to it; e.g. it is available to ALL people. Maybe.

You're a liar.

Just found out I'm right about you, You should know that neighbors talk. You're not that thought of too highly of even in your own neighborhood.

Well said. Medicare does have a lot to be desired; it is not the jewel most people think it is (esp. part D), however, it is better than nothing. Just to learn how that "doughnut hole" works is mind boggling and sickening. One reaches the doughnut hole not only by what is paid out-of-pocket, but includes what the insurer pays; therefore, the elderly enter that "gap" very quickly, after which the cost of medication sky rockets. I think the government has and is doing a lot to deter Medicare fraud and abuse. A good deterrent should be those doctors and other health care workers who are sitting in jail. Although there will always be those who think they won't get caught. I think the gov't. is too large to run many programs efficiently. There are too many layers, workers historically have a reputation of not being as productive (not everyone), and often times the law or program is not understood and subject to a zillion interpretations. As one of my staff once said, "We need to get a good 'ol government job." They are not easy to come by either.

Msg, if Medicare has a lot to be desired, and you think the govt is too large to run many programs efficiently, then why would you think they were capable of running the entire health system?

"then why would you think they were capable of running the entire health system?" - Jimmy

Did I say that? I have read and re-read my comment several times and I don't see anywhere that I said the government is capable of running the entire health system.

BTW, did you folks know that GA residents did not receive a refund from insurance companies as mandated in the ACA? The governor opted GA citizens out, rather than in; that's how one represents his constituents. Oh well, we elected him to represent us.

It has been great chatting with all of you today. I don't know when I last had so much fun. A good debate every now and then is good. Good night all!