Why I Am Voting NO on TSPLOST
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The upcoming TSPLOST vote is of vital interest to all of us who live and work in Georgia. In fact, many of the reasons I will be voting "no" on the July 31 TSPLOST vote are the same ones that prompted my run for Congress in the first place. I hope you find some of this information useful as you talk with voters leading up to the election.
1 - I decided long ago I would never vote for a tax increase on myself. I have to live with my representatives raising taxes, but I don’t have to do it for them.
2 - TSPLOST is NOT a 1 percent tax increase. Much of the "pro" literature has lines like “a 1 penny increase” or “a 1 percent tax” or “raise the sales tax by 1 percent.” These are misleading at best. The sales tax where I live is 6 percent. Raising it to 7 percent is a almost a 17 percent increase in the tax I will be paying.
3 - As I read the project list, my region will be paying over $470 million to perform maintenance on MARTA, which has losses of about $500 million per year. If MARTA is losing this much money without paying maintenance, imagine what the loss would be if this was added. How will they maintain their system in the future, especially if the service is expanded?
4 - We have good reason not to trust them. One example - Governor Deal campaigned on removing the 400 toll. You may not remember, but in 2011 he did just that -- then instituted a ‘new’ toll a few days later. He actually made a statement at the time that he was glad to be able to keep the promise of removing the toll once the road was paid for. This would be funny if it weren’t so sad.
5 - Pushing the vote off to the citizens is an abdication of representative government. If elected officials decide more money needs to be spent on transportation projects then raise taxes or cut spending to pay for it and suffer the consequences. Don’t avoid all the hard decisions.
6 - Money is fungible - there is no difference between one dollar and any other. Raising taxes for transportation projects simply frees up money for other programs. Providing roads, bridges, etc. is something tax dollars are designed for. Now the government wants to keep the same income they had last year but not have to pay for all these projects. It seems to me that if we are pulling all these transportation projects out of their budget they should lower our taxes.
7 - New technology. I worked for a traffic engineering firm for almost 10 years and I saw what could be done to greatly reduce congestion by simply coordinating traffic signals with no changes to the roads. We are now on the verge of new technologies that will have a similar impact, from things as groundbreaking as the driverless car to things as simple as telecommuting. These advances will allow us to get more throughput from our existing infrastructure.
8 - What else could we do with $18 billion? Adam Goldfein, who has a collection of articles about TSPLOST has written a very interesting financial article about the projects on the list. If the goal of TSPLOST is to make Atlanta more competitive with other big cities, what if we instead purchased and launched seven space shuttles? Or 18 quality pro football teams? We could put up four Freedom Towers, or even build the tallest building in the world (certainly an attraction) and have enough money left over to build four amusement parks the size of Disneyland Hong Kong. Thinking bigger, we could buy almost 10 percent of South Carolina. Or, if you really want to reduce traffic, we could buy 180,000 jetpacks which, you have to admit, would be way cooler.
9 - I am also suspicions about the fact that about 17 percent of the money goes to cities and counties to, essentially, spend as they wish.Some have projects ready but most do not. I fear this money was promised to ensure their support.
After doing my research, these are my top nine reasons for a "no" vote on July 31. I hope that you will consider what is going on here and make the right choice.
For your reference, here is a really good map of the regions: Region Map
Robert Broome
4:05 pm on Monday, July 9, 2012
You're mistaken on every one of these points, Mr. Hancock.
1. By voting NO on T-SPLOST, you're saying yes to increased traffic congestion. You will end up taxing yourself in other ways: Lost time, wasted fuel, less jobs, lower property values, and diminished quality of life.
2. This is semantic nonsense. It's a one percent sales tax.
3. Like it or not, MARTA, GRTA, and other transit projects funded by the T-SPLOST are a vital part of our overall transportation system. Enhancing and expanding transit will lead to more transit riders and less drivers on the road.
4. The GA 400 toll was renewed unilaterally by a board of political appointees. The T-SPLOST can be approved ONLY by a referendum of the voters.
5. Voting against improving our transportation system because you think it will inspire lawmakers to solve the problem in the next General Assembly is foolhardy and pointless.
6. Transportation funding is not fully fungible. Our state constitution says that motor vehicle fuel taxes can be used solely for roadway improvements. Since this tax is collected based on consumption, improving fuel efficiency hampers the ability of this tax to cover our transportation infrastructure needs.
7. Synchronizing traffic signals isn't going to solve our infrastructure crisis, especially on our interstate system.
8. It's $8.5 billion over 10 years, not $18 billion.
9. It's 15% that's allocated to local governments, and those funds can be spent ONLY on transportation needs.
Jeffrey Allen
8:50 am on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
Ok, Mr. Propeonent. Let's talk about how they used our $$$ on the last big ticket project. Yeah, that one. The highly unpopular I-85 HOT lanes.
Please explain to the great unwashed naysayers why we should cough up one solitary dime to an agency that wasted millions of dollars on a project that made traffic WORSE. Please explain to us why the pro-tax people don't want to talk about the HOT lanes at all in this conversation.
I don't blame you for not wanting to talk about the hot lanes and for hoping people don't bring it up. If I were on your side I'd want to sweep that one under the rug so people can think in terms of catchy, uninformational slogans too...
David Hancock
1:37 pm on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
I think 'mistaken' may not be the right word. It seems like some of these points you make are simply your opinion - which, like me, you are certainly welcome to express. Specifically point '3' is just your support for a bus system that loses half a billion dollars a year, not a point showing that I am wrong. Your point '4' sounds more like an excuse. And, regarding point '5', I have no delusions that anything will inspire lawmakers, nor did I say so. Regarding point '6', I believe that fuel is specifically exempted from this new tax, but either way there is nothing in the Constitution that says the Legislature can ONLY improve roads with the fuel tax. For point '7' - signal synchronization was an example that works on surface streets. There are no traffic lights on the Interstate. If your number point 8 is correct, then just cut everything in 1/2. I still think you could make quite a statement with just 3 space shuttles or 90,000 jet packs. But, I was wrong on point 9. It is only 15% that is going back to local governments. I don’t see how that makes it much better. But by your math (see point ‘2’) 15% is only 2% less than 17%, so I wasn’t off that much.
Robb
10:04 pm on Thursday, July 19, 2012
I am voting NO! 9% Sales Tax and it is mostly road projects in the burbs! Where is the innovation in that. Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Use your brains guys!
Even the Executive DIrector, Jimmy Cotty, is only talking about road improvements and he lives in Roswell.... The Burbs! I moved downtown to be within 2 miles of work. You know, Jimmy, you could park at the end of the Red Line and MARTA it in. Then you avoid the 75/85 problem you keep talking about. Ever think YOU might be the problem. YOU are creating the traffic. There are up to 7 lanes of interstate in one direction in some places. You CANNOT widen any more!
Scott Ehly
5:08 pm on Monday, July 23, 2012
Robert,
I must side with Mr. Hancock on this. An argument, in its truest sense (apart from the angry connotation of recent cultural definition) involves the application of reason either to a mutually agreed upon set of known facts, or the introduction of new verifiable facts. By contrast, the majority of your rebuttal brings to mind the “No it isn’t” section of Monty Python’s Argument Clinic sketch (See 2 minutes in http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=argument+clinic&mid=5A86B8B9D7810EBAF0CD5A86B8B9D7810EBAF0CD&view=detail&FORM=VIRE1) .
Allow me to take a whack at the point by point:
1. Your statement here is entirely unfounded. First, you’d have to be able to prove that increased traffic congestion is a foregone conclusion. Second, you would have to prove that the projects slated for T-SPLOST will necessarily prevent that increase.
2. I should probably take the time to define semantics for you here as well but I won’t. Instead, I’ll introduce a concept that we statistical analysts like to call Percent Difference. This is a number that represents increase or decrease in terms of the original value. This is done by subtracting the original value from the new value and then dividing the difference by the original value. In this case, it would be (7-6)/6 = 16.66~.
Scott Ehly
5:15 pm on Monday, July 23, 2012
(cont...)
Perhaps you would understand this better if I explained it in terms of that penny to which you referred (“one percent sales tax”). If my tax is a penny and you raise it by a penny, you’ve doubled my taxes. Those of us who pay attention to the amount of money taken from us annually in the form of taxes will notice that this means $2000/year would become $4000/year; $10,000 would become $20,000/year. We would also say you are “mistaken” if you refer to this radically different perspective on a penny as merely a matter of semantics.
3. Again, your assertions are speculative.
4. I’ll defer to Mr. Hancock’s rebuttal for this one.
5. It fascinates me that I seldom hear anyone address this absurdity head on. We are not voting against improving the transportation system. That would be like voting against having a sharp stick removed from one’s eye. We’re simply not that stupid. We’re voting against a tax increase; pure and simple. I for one will never vote for anything that even implies an increase in tax. Balance your budget or re-address your priorities but I’m giving plenty.
6-9. Enough has already been said.
ED CARR
8:57 pm on Monday, July 9, 2012
Mr. Hancock....you stated - "I decided long ago I would never vote for a tax increase on myself. I have to live with my representatives raising taxes, but I don’t have to do it for them." I just wanted you to know that I agree 100%.. T-SPLOST is nonsense.
Ben
9:22 am on Tuesday, July 10, 2012
Myself and other people in Gwinnett, Walton, Dekalb and other Counties I know, 99% are voting NO, NO and No, What Happen to the Great outside Big Loop Around Atlanta, that was to be done, if only we would go along with a Tax hike years ago. NOTHING
Dan Lynn
10:31 am on Tuesday, July 10, 2012
TSplost is GDOTS answer to the failed Northern Arc. This will be a permanent tax if approved just the the 400 tolls. Hopefully we aren't dumb enough to believe another lie. $8 million ad campaign is under way. Wake up Georgia
debbie delo
10:52 am on Tuesday, July 10, 2012
I agree with Mr. Hancock. We already have too many taxes. Plus our governments have not figured out how to spend our money within a budget. Companies are cutting back and people loosing jobs but I haven't heard of any government offices cutting back on people. As far as money going to projects, I've seen too many pet projects that are really fluff and not beneficial.
ED CARR
4:31 pm on Tuesday, July 10, 2012
I'm voting NO.
R++ - One of the famous "Dacula Crew"
6:28 pm on Tuesday, July 10, 2012
There’s really nothing NEW here at all, it’s just another new TAX or “penalty” if you are so inclined. It really DEPENDS on receiving mass amounts of FEDERAL matching dollars during its life to be “completed”, as much as it can be, since many projects will be left undone during the FIRST period. It puts ADDITIONAL taxes on FOOD and Medicine, after the new taxes by the Fed on medical items contained within the ACA, aren’t we “taxing” the taxes now?
It creates yet ANOTHER statewide agency - don’t we ALREADY have enough of those? Tell us again which ones are dissolved by this program?
To provide all these projects, that the ARC already states for the record by the way that will NOT change commute times at all - so there will be NO rush of “Jobs!!”, that is unless you’re hired by the new state agency I suppose.
If nothing changes how does Atlanta get untied? (Smiles)
Simply look to the “GO Fish!” spending and a state government that raised hospital bed taxes with the intent of collecting roughly HALF of that new revenue from the Federal Government as back charges on Medicaid/Medicare. That program was such a success, that to get “new” revenue from a Federal Program, the state will start charging Veterans in some locations housing fees because the Fed reimburses the veterans - for the time being at least…
Vote NO! So the REAL list of needed transportation items can be released from this “Bill” like the Phoenix from the ashes.
Cindy
7:16 pm on Tuesday, July 10, 2012
I was at the Snellville City Hall meeting last night and there was a nice young man from ARC there to explain how T-Splost would work. On his power point presentation he showed how the improvements to roads would decrease travel times to and from work, and how that would also decrease the amount of pollutants emmitted by vehicles. Then he explained how local businesses could hire more people because it would be easier for everyone to get to work. 117,000 new workers!
Now, let's see if I understand this. 117,000 more workers in the same area is supposed to "untie" congestion and help clear the air. Huh?
Cindy
7:18 pm on Tuesday, July 10, 2012
BTW, I'm voting no just because I will not vote myself a tax hike.
Concerned citizen
9:19 pm on Tuesday, July 10, 2012
No. 100%. I previously worked for a consulting firm that had many, major GDOT contracts. Waste of tax payers money.
Jeffrey Allen
8:45 am on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
Agree on all points, particularily #4.
It is also interesting how the ARC and other proponents aren't touting the "success" of the last brilliant idea to come forth with our transportation tax money, the I-85 HOT lanes.
What a terrible idea. In order for the H.O.T. lanes to work, all the other lanes have to be clogged up, very effectively making the traffic situation WORSE for most to benefit the few. WHoever dreamed that up was either really stupid or really, really evil.
Soooo....why would anyone trust these (stupid? really, really evil?) people with our tax $$$? The fact is they made traffic WORSE and used millions of tax dollars to do it. Now they ask for more and they don't want to talk about their latest project.
It would be stupid to talk about that one, everyone hates it so I can only conclude that these people are evil.
VOTE NO!!!!!
Cindy
12:47 pm on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
Getting past the few grammatical errors (such as "less drivers on the road" when it is really 'fewer drivers on the road'....and a few other general mistakes, I believe it is a travesty to vote for something so seemingly underhanded. Who is paying the 8 million dollars for advertising? My vote is still NO. I can't get past the feeling I have that something is amiss. I have neither read nor heard anything that stirs my mind to believe otherwise. The major ad campaign is a real turn-off for me. My vote is still NO. Trivia such as cleaner air, decreased travel time, and job creation sounds like glorified myths. Those engaging in such verbiage appear less than enlightened. My vote is still NO. Thanks, but No Thanks. Our politicians and GDOT are the ones who need a wake-up call. Use our tax dollars wisely, as "the well has dried up". Many may vote like me, as my vote is still NO.
Elaine Hazelrigs Manross
2:13 pm on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
Why can't the 'powers that be' negotiate with CSX railroad to use existing rail lines for commuter trains? NY, CN, etc., have been using rail for decades!! We don't need another tax!
David Hancock
7:40 pm on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
This is an excellent idea! I discussed this with the City of Suwanee years ago and was told that CSX had no interest in dealing with them (the tracks run through the City of Suwanee). There are two Amtrak passenger trains that run through Suwanee - one heading south around 8:30 am and then one heading north later in the afternoon. It is a line that runs from New Orleans to Washington DC. I think someone who knows about railroads should try and make progress on this.
Jon Richards
6:08 pm on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
David, you are wrong when you say MARTA loses about $500 million each year (point 3). MARTA's operating deficits are around $28 million per year, nowhere near that amount. The $500 million figure includes depreciation on capital equipment, which is not a cash expense, but an accounting expense. In addition no TIA money goes to maintenance for MARTA -- that's what's written into the law.
David Hancock
7:36 pm on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
First, are you implying that it is OK because they 'only' lose $28 million a year? Second - if the law says no money for MARTA maintenance the visit http://www.atlantaregionalroundtable.com/documents/final_report.pdf and please explain to me some of the items down in the 'investment' section with titles like "Rehabilitation" that have descriptions like "This program will replace, renovate, or upgrade various electrical power equipment throughout MARTA’s thirty‐year old rail system." Or this line "This program will renovate elements of the structures supporting the aerial sections of MARTA’s rail lines, and it includes efforts to
renovate pedestrian bridges over MARTA and adjacent railroad track way, replace expansion joints between sections of aerial structures, and replace metal pads supporting the structures." This is important. If the law actually says it can't be used for maintenance then either this is maintenance or I am reading it wrong. Please explain and I will be happy to admit my mistake - the documents are a little complicated.
Jon Richards
8:52 pm on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
David,let me explain the difference between maintenance and the projects you describe. Think of it in terms of your car. Maintenance would be something like changing your oil or replacing your wiper blades. These projects are more like rebuilding the car's engine or replacing the transmission -- they are significant capital investments that extend or improve the life of the system. Hope this helps.
M.K. Osborne
6:18 pm on Wednesday, July 11, 2012
I'm going to UNTIE ATLANTA by voting these leeches out !
Tammy Osier
3:04 pm on Thursday, July 12, 2012
I did early voting and voted N O.
Dustin
4:17 pm on Thursday, July 12, 2012
Who's paying for the people to be on these committees and roundtables? Who's pocket are they getting paid from? They shouldn't get paid for putting up such lousy project ideas. I'm still waiting for someone to tell me how Approach lights and a new airport tower in Kennesaw is going to help my commute to work? If this isn't a bogus pet project, then I don't know what is. This just goes to show that the whole thing is a tax increase scam by our local leaders to fund their low-bid construction friends and pad their own pockets.
Jack W. Bruce
8:07 am on Sunday, July 15, 2012
A lot of good points..though some are a bit of a stretch. Either way, there are wins and losses. However, the key point for why I will vote YES is that Atlanta needs jobs. This will be the tipping point for some companies making a decision to relocate to Atlanta or Charlotte, Birmingham, Jacksonville,..
Scott Ehly
11:00 am on Tuesday, July 24, 2012
What?!
Atlanta needs jobs?!
What?!
Supporting T-SPLOST simply on the grounds that it will provide jobs is making a game out of a serious matter. We’re not talking about little league baseball where you tell your child “It doesn’t matter if you win or lose as long as you did your best and had fun”. This is millions of dollars we’re discussing and it DOES matter if you we actually ‘win’. Talking about this in terms of how many jobs is creates smacks of something 2nd grade teachers used to call “busy work”; handing out mimeographed coloring books or find-the-word puzzles to keep the class occupied when a lesson plan failed to cover a full day.
How ‘bout we let Atlanta’s citizens keep some of their money and spend it as the see fit. Then we can let the free market create real jobs producing things that people actually want and need. Companies follow the money. Don’t you think they would relocate with every bit the same enthusiasm to a city where the people are spending money as to a place where the local government is spending money?
Kristi Reed
8:32 am on Sunday, July 15, 2012
My biggest concern is the portion of proceeds slated to go to mass transit. Here in Gwinnett County, our transit system will be subsidized this year to the tune of $3.2 million (out of total budget of $7.8 million).
http://www.gwinnettcounty.com/static/departments/financialservices/2012_budget/2012_BudgetDocument_Final.pdf
If mass transit is such a great answer to traffic problems, then why is it so unpopular/inefficient that it needs a 41 percent taxpayer subsidy just to keep operating? Are taxpayers going to have to subsidize all the mass transit projects on the TSPLOST list to that degree? How do I trust the decision making that led the powers that be to convert a perfectly successful HOV lane into a HOT lane or the leadership that promised taxpayers years ago that the 400 tolls would go away and then reneged on that promise? As for MARTA and the MARTA-related projects on the TSPLOST list, MARTA only gets 22 percent of its revenue from fares. Sixty percent already comes from the MARTA tax. Is TSPLOST just a way for the rest of the region to join in paying the MARTA tax? http://www.itsmarta.com/uploadedFiles/About_MARTA/Reports/PAFR_2011%20final.pdf
The massive pro-TSPLOST advertising campaign has yet to answer those questions.
Karen A
1:45 pm on Thursday, July 19, 2012
Highway building and repaving, trains, and buses are all subsidized by our tax dollars. Our taxes can go to build and pave and repave roads, or we can spend tax revenues on trains and buses. The issue is how to move people and goods quickly and efficiently. Atlanta is way behind other major American cities in mass transit. I am for more trains and buses, which will take cars off the highway and result in the long run in less repaving. I have thought about it. I am voting YES to T-SPLOST.
DW
9:51 am on Sunday, July 15, 2012
Except for a few candidates trying to get into office, I have not found any place where our incumbent elected officials have clearly declared a position on TSPLOST. Has anyone seen a survey of Gwinnett politicians that give a clear statement of "support/no-support."
Eric B
4:16 pm on Wednesday, July 18, 2012
The Gwinnett County representatives in the planning process were Gwinnett County Chairwoman Charlotte Nash and Norcross Mayor Bucky Johnson. Both of them were specifically involved in what projects are funded for Gwinnett, and from a broader standpoint in the whole idea.
What kills me is this is $18 billion in funding ($5 billion of which is unrestricted and given to the counties) is part of the funding for a $65 billion transportation program that has $ billions of basic maintenance and pork projects. The plan is to raise the rest from the taxpayers through other programs - more tolls, parking fees, new taxes, taxes from other programs, etc. And the assumption is the Federal government will kick in big $ - the same entity that is running deficits of $1 trillion per year and wants to raise taxes.
Just say No!
Tara Cochran
3:49 pm on Monday, July 16, 2012
The bottom line for me is that people in Atlanta love our cars. Mass transit will never catch on outside the perimeter. Voting yes for TSplost is like the school asking me for a supply contribution for my kid when I have already supplied them with paper towels and copy paper. We are taxed to death in a failing economy as it is. Show me a politician that can manage the tax revenue they already collect and I might vote for projects like this just to improve and maintain our roads. Otherwise, it is "No"!
David Hancock
4:30 pm on Monday, July 16, 2012
Some of the comments have hit on another reason that I did not include - basic supply and demand. If 400, for instance, is crowded because people want to live north and work south, then widening the road will never help. If the commute is easy more people will move north until the commute becomes difficult again. If we then add lanes, the commute becomes easy again and more people move north. It is a cycle that will always leave the road just crowded enough at rush hours.
Ron Hollis
8:59 am on Tuesday, July 17, 2012
Mr. Hancock....excellent blog posting. I am pushing...For me, I believe government should be totally transparent, which would provide easy access to the 2012 Budget and disbursements. From there I could assess revenue and investments for a reasonable ROI...the Untie Atlanta folks have NOT provided me such a link to this information. Anyone know where to find?
Jeffrey Allen
9:34 am on Tuesday, July 17, 2012
Have you noticed the disconnect here between the "business community" and the regular folks here? Of course the Chamber of Commerce in every city and county in the state is salivating over this, as are many local politicians. I feel like I'm being talked down to by these folks...like they just want us to cough up the dough and let them do what they will with it. Am i the only one who has noticed this?
Of course, they don't want to talk about the boondoggle of the H.O.T. lanes, or the Ga 400 toll booth lies. Why is that? I'd love to hear them squirm their way out of those topics.
How can you ask people to finance new projects while ignoring the history of past projects and expect anything to go differently? You have convinced me that I cannot trust you...yet you stand there with that smug look on your face while you tell me you want in my wallet and that it's good for me? Seriously?
No. NO. NO!
David Hancock
10:38 am on Tuesday, July 17, 2012
Remember - local governments get a hunk of money if this thing passes. Talk about salivating. They all have projects that they would like to have funded with this windfall, and none of these projects are on the list. Most of them haven't even been determined. That is a big reason local politicians are for it.
Taxmee Moore
7:24 pm on Tuesday, July 17, 2012
1% adds up!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3PFaLtj0Zk
Robb
10:08 pm on Thursday, July 19, 2012
I am voting NO! 9% Sales Tax and it is mostly road projects in the burbs! Where is the innovation in that. Einstein defined insanity as doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Use your brains guys!
Even the Executive DIrector, Jimmy Cotty, is only talking about road improvements and he lives in Roswell.... The Burbs! I moved downtown to be within 2 miles of work. You know, Jimmy, you could park at the end of the Red Line and MARTA it in. Then you avoid the 75/85 problem you keep talking about. Ever think YOU might be the problem. YOU are creating the traffic. There are up to 7 lanes of interstate in one direction in some places. You CANNOT widen any more!
Jimmy Orr
11:41 am on Tuesday, July 24, 2012
Once again, David, great article. By now I expect most readers of Dacula Patch know that I am adamantly OPPOSED to TSPLOST. I started tracking this financial albatross back in April of 2008 when the ARC's Transit Planning Board was peddling their 2008 Concept Plan 3 Regional Transit Vision. The rail transit proposed on the 2008 Comcept Plan 3 very closely mirrors the rail transit projects which are on the 2012 TSPLOST constrained projects list. The bottom line is that TSPLOST is a bailout for MARTA and the City of Atlanta which has, in my opinion, become the cesspool of the South. Why? Its schools are broke, its sewers are broke, its water rates, in all probabilty, are among the highest in the nation, and crime appears to be rampant. It is a disgrace when students on the campus of one of the top institutions of technology in America want permission to carry firearms on campus for self protection not to mention that a recent article in the news media has the new CEO, General manager, or whatever, of Atlantic Station stating something something to the effect about crime around that crown jewel. Vote NO to TSPLOST. You won't go wrong.
Joe
6:35 am on Wednesday, July 25, 2012
Vote "NO" July 31 and say "NO" to jobs. Everyone know that Obama is the only person who can create jobs, who are we to come up with a plan that would work?
Let's just ask the federal government for money to maintain our roads, there's no waste there. What could possibly be more efficient than getting transportation funding from the federal government? The 15-20 year plan for projects seems to be very efficient.
Dave M
4:58 pm on Sunday, July 29, 2012
I voted NO. The HOT lanes for me is a constant reminder of the bad decisions these folks make....