.
Feedback

OK, Fine: Declare 'Obamacare' Unconstitutional

A liberal's answer to the upcoming change that will come when the court declares the Affordable Care Act to be unconstitutional.

Recently, I was in a discussion about the prospect of a second term for our president, Barack Obama. My right wing friend was crowing about the soon-to-be-decided outcome of the Affordable Care Act and its constitutional question. I don't know how this will turn out, but I am encouraged about our president's chances for re-election.

Well, Obama has great poll numbers. The GOP has managed to destroy any base they may have had with women, Hispanics or youth. And, then there is the Affordable Care Act. There are many people already benefiting from this act. If, the Supreme Court does declare it as unconstitutional I am of a mind to say OK.

All the fallout from such a political bomb will fall on the GOP shoulders. There will be so much heart-breaking change for so many people who can't afford medical insurance coverage, can't be approved for coverage if they can afford it and can't change jobs because of the need to keep the coverage they need. Will the voters like it when big med and big pharm see record stock price increases?

You see, they will no longer have to control how they manage their margins so that 80 percent goes to care of premium payers. It will be the "good old days" again for all the medical industry special interest groups. So while coverage will be denied to those that want to buy coverage the medical insurance companies will make billions in the "so called" free market.

"Obamacare" was already working to provide coverage for those that were being denied coverage. Why do people without coverage go to the emergency room for help ? The cost to all of us is very high when they get treated in the ER. And, the care they get in the emergency room is not what it should be because most of these medical problems could have been more efficiently managed with preventable care that comes from having a medical plan.

The "Obamacare" Affordable Care Act would take care of this problem. Well then, if the Supreme Court in the land declares a law to be unconstitutional then the law was wrong, right? Maybe in civics class, but in the real-world politics of Washington, D.C., I am thinking that there is a pretty clear 5-to-4 party line voting history in the current court.

Which brings it all back to re-reelecting Obama in November and changing the court more in this liberal's favor.

Brian Crawford April 5, 2012 at 01:34 am
"Another Comment on CBO’s Estimates for the Insurance Coverage Provisions of the Affordable Care Act" is not the actual report. The comment was issued to clarify some of the mis-reporting on the subject; i. e. "the cost of Obamacare has doubled" which is a popular misreading of the report.
The actual report states "Those amounts do not encompass all of the budgetary impacts of the ACA because that legislation has many other provisions, including some that will cause significant reductions in Medicare spending and others that will generate added tax revenues, relative to what would have occurred under prior law. CBO and JCT have previously estimated that the ACA will, on net, reduce budget deficits over the 2012–2021 period; that estimate of the overall budgetary impact of the ACA has not been updated." http://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/cbofiles/attachments/03-13-Coverage%20Estimates.pdf
David Leader April 5, 2012 at 11:54 am
I don't know enough about that document to comment; other than it seems a bit of a stretch to have it skyrocketing without Obama care and a flat level on it.
I will disagree on the healthy adult think; my parents are in their 70s and very healthy; and we have a lot of members of the Atlanta Outdoor Club in their 60s and 70s that are active, healthy, and fit. I don't really think age is an excuse here; that is just when people who have not practiced preventative care their whole life begin to see their bodies decline. As American's we spend the lowest % of our income on food in the world, and the highest in medical. It's not a coincidence; people need to change their mindsets in this country to make healthy eating priority #1.
Anne Thomas April 5, 2012 at 11:55 am
All of us instead should focus on demanding that our representatives fight for the real solution to the problem - separating health care from employment. It is a commodity like any other insurance and should be treated as such. Listen to most economists and that's what they'll say.
We sure love to over-complicate things here in America.
David Leader April 5, 2012 at 12:11 pm
That'd be great; if it wasn't for the fact that people just wouldn't do it if it wasn't there. We're simply lazy in this country; sad but true... I had trouble remembering to get my health insurance during my layoff period a decade ago, and wouldn't have if my parents had not hounded me. Plus, they would need to increase incomes to compensate for what we always took for granted. And while I may pay $20 a week, asking me to pay a few hundred or more per month might get me to just want to "take my chances"; especially as a person who hasn't been to the doctor's office in 13 years.
Floyd Akridge April 5, 2012 at 03:21 pm
Brian...you will grasp at literally anything to try to make a half-point. Did you actually READ this document from the GAO? I wonder...
Early on it starts with this assumption which I quote "Further, as the economy recovers, revenue increases and spending decreases". Can we all laugh together? Spending decreases...yeah right. This is Barak "1.3 trillion dollar deficit a year" Obama. He can't use "spending" and "decreases" in the same sentence. What a hoot. But here's the kicker and you have to read to page 5 to find it...again...I quote "Under the Baseline Extended simulation, revenues as a share of the economy are higher and discretionary spending is lower than historical averages". MAGAWD BRIAN...discretionary spending is lower than historical averages? Under Obama?????? Brian, as usual, you help me make my point but frankly I don't need the help. Obamacare is not only unconstitutional but is terrible legislation otherwise. We could do the good parts of the bill (and yes there are some...you can't make people eat poison if there's no candy) and SO MUCH MORE if the real reason for the reform wasn't a power grab and "transforming America" into communism.
Floyd Akridge April 5, 2012 at 03:23 pm
Brian...if it takes you 6 weeks to get an appointment with a cardiologist you should look for another cardiologist instead of trumpting obamacare. I don't have that problem at all.
John Wagner April 5, 2012 at 03:48 pm
It is disappointing such an important subject has become politicized. The law has some good objectives but for every example provided for people helped....I can show harm and unintended consequences with specific marketplace examples. The bill must be significantly downsized/restructured to achieve its own stated objectives and of course the financial assumptions were not sound and will bankrupt us.
I don't mean this note to critique anyone's views but rather I present this with a hope that a more fact based process will be undertaken away from the political considerations. We should be able to help people in need and those with severe medical problems without having the taxpayers foot the bill for individual, personal care decisions. In the end, the Supreme Court Decision is not what is important. If they strike it down, we have a system that all agree needs reform. If they don't, we have a new process that will cause more harm than good and will surely bankrupt us. Personal responsibility and free market innovation in healthcare practices are needed along with some sensible catastrophic protections/ help for our most needy.
Tammy Osier April 5, 2012 at 04:10 pm
Jw thats exactly what Marco Rubio was trying to say. Unfortunately, partisan politics and pride will keep liberals from admitting it. Sad.
Karsten Torch April 5, 2012 at 04:24 pm
JW, partisan politics was the whole reason that Obamacare was passed. In the middle of the night. If passed, they got their 'healthcare' bill for the masses, especially those that are already beholden to the government for their very existence, and if not, they could blame it on the GOP for blocking it. The timing was very calculated to help with the last elections. It didn't, but it was supposed to. There's nothing about this bill that is bipartisan. That's why Obama and his criminals, er, cronies, had to buy and intimidate the dems to get it pushed through.
Wes Allen April 5, 2012 at 04:30 pm
But, if you have a very large pool of premium payors the "pre-existing condition" problem goes away. Sort of like when you get employed by a very large corporation.
The math is always wrong by the right. How about the additional growth in the economy when the medical system is Not in the way od commerce. as it is today many decisions are being made because of medical insurance not whats best to earn money. Lots of growth being stunted by the current system. Dollars being wasted.
RL April 5, 2012 at 05:29 pm
Brian - talk about activism. Sotomayor, Kagan, Ginsburg and Breyer are already the new "gang of four". At least, some if not all of the remaining Supremes are pragmatic enough to consider the entirety of the debate. What about un-constitutional do you not understand? If it is un-constitutional, it is a bad law. Period. Talk about Scalia and Thomas - Kagan worked in the Barry Soetero administration! No partisanship there.
Brian Crawford April 5, 2012 at 11:55 pm
Floyd, you've obviously read the report and yet STILL deny the facts. Yes, as the economy improves and more people go back to work tax revenues increase and safety net spending decreases. This is ECON 101. Seems pretty easy to understand to me.
Go back and read the definition for the Baseline Extended Simulation which includes current assumptions on entitlements plus the impact of both Obamacare and the recently passed Budget Control Act. It also assumes the expiration of the Bush tax cuts. Under that scenario the GAO does indeed project that for the next decade "revenues as a share of the economy are higher and discretionary spending is lower than historical averages". I'm pretty sure those folks know a lpt more about this stuff than you or I. Sounds like Obama's doing a pretty good job to me. Sorry if the truth is in conflict with the GOP's manufactured version of reality..
Brian Crawford April 6, 2012 at 12:07 am
Obamacare has to be the most thoroughly vetted, over analyzed piece of legislation in history. Dozens of CBO and GAO reports have repeatedly reached the same conclusions. Obamacare bends the curve on medical expenses and reduces the deficit over the next decade. Those are conclusions generated by non-partisan, fact based analysis.
Brian Crawford April 6, 2012 at 12:13 am
RL, the fact that you use the pejorative "Barry Soetero" tells one all one needs to know about you and the value of any argument you may have.
Bob Chadwick April 6, 2012 at 12:15 am
I hope your right Brian, assuming you get the chance, because I haven't seen anything that has come to those conclusions. My concern is that the attempts to place price controls on the system, Obama's primary cost containment mechanism, don't drive primary care doctors, those that get paid the least, out of medicine because they can't afford to pay back the costs of their education.
Brian Crawford April 6, 2012 at 12:23 am
Actually Bob, Obamacare attempts to address that problem with the Primary Care Incentive Payment program: http://www.acponline.org/running_practice/practice_management/payment_coding/bonus.htm
Bob Chadwick April 6, 2012 at 12:33 am
The report you link to says that those providers can expect to receive $8,000 in Medicare payments each year with a 10% bonus, or $800. Doesn't change my concern at all.
Brian Crawford April 6, 2012 at 12:48 am
I'm pretty sure that first paragraph meant to say "$8,000 in additional Medicare revenue", meaning an $8,000 bonus, I can't imagine them making a fuss over $800. I'll see if I can clarify that.
Bob Chadwick April 6, 2012 at 12:51 am
An interesting article on Justice Kagan.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/04/05/us-usa-court-kagan-idUSBRE83410E20120405
Floyd Akridge April 6, 2012 at 01:20 am
Brian...being called "cronically misinformed" by a left-left-left wing is quite the compliment. Translated into everyday language it means that you're getting intellectually slapped around because I am able to expose all of your left-left-left wing hysteria. Thank you Brian for the compliment.
Have I read the CBO report? You betcha. Brian...do YOU know how the CBO must operate BY LAW? ObamaCare showed a phantom debt reduction because it had 6 years of service funded by 10 years of taxes. But you being a left-left-left wing hysteria propagator rarely actually do the math do you? Those dang facts just suck don't they Brian. The CBO is REQUIRED BY LAW to score the bill as written regardless of reality. If the bill said they were going to pay for OC by selling Elephant steaks at 500,000/pound the CBO **MUST** score it using 500,000/pound Elephant steaks. When 10 years of service and revenue are actually scored factually...OMG...the cost more than doubles and your phantom deficit reduction morphs into more and more ObamaDebt. Of course...any rationally thinking person knew that already.
Floyd Akridge April 6, 2012 at 01:23 am
RL...don't you love the way the Left-Left-Left wing hysteria propagators avoid any factual discussion on issues?
Floyd Akridge April 6, 2012 at 02:19 am
Brian...I do agree...as more people return to work, *all other things being equal*, revenue will increase. However, you confuse terms with regard to spending. The GAO uses "discretionary" and you use "safety net". Not the same things.
The key here is that all other things are not equal. We have President Obama who has successfuly increased the national debt by more than any other President in history. He makes the previous President look like a spend thrift. Projections for FY2012 are 1.3+ trillion dollars alone. Taking OC out of the equation for a moment...how much do interest payments ALONE increase? Monies going for interest payments are funds that could otherwise be used for business investment/expansion. That means a stronger economy which means a LOT more revenue. Consequently ObamaDebt is raping our economy which is one of the reasons for this pathetic "recovery". Revenues will not expand above historical averages and discretionary spending falling below historical averages are words President Obama can't use in a sentence. Won't happen. You also note the assumption of the expiration of the Bush Tax Cuts. That would be a further drag on the economic "recovery" making it even more unlikely for the senario predicted by the GAO to occur.
Floyd Akridge April 6, 2012 at 02:20 am
A moment here to deviate from the topic at hand. Isn't it funny to hear democrats wax on about how bad the Bush Tax cuts were and how they were for the rich. One of the things in the package was an expansion of the Child Tax Credit from 500 to 1000 per child. Funny...it's actually Democrats who want to increase taxes on working middle income families.
Floyd Akridge April 6, 2012 at 02:24 am
Brian...your statement about ObamaCare reducing the deficit has only one small problem...it isn't true.
When the CBO, ***as required by law***, scored the bill it had to take it as written. The bill contained 10 years of revenue funding 6 years of services. Unfortunately that senario doesn't continue and once the system has to be fully funded it costs about twice what was advertised. But leave it to Obama and his socialism/communism to try to make the public believe that you can lower the debt by spending more.
John Wagner April 6, 2012 at 07:10 am
To the point on scenario planning and vetting. There were volumes of numbers but they were largely assumptive scenarios and not fact based. We are just beginning a vetting stage. Remember, many rules are still in development so these costs could not be known until this step was completed.
Class was already identified as unworkable in ACA and was an important source of funding. Class was the Long Term care program. We were going to pay in premiums for a number of years before benefits were dispersed. The change in Class happened when better data was developed and the results were way off the projections (these projected benefits were low anyway and below actual LTC costs). Class is probably the tip of the iceberg. We are already seeing a shift from an employer supported market to the individual market which could shift more cost to middle class consumers despite what you might hear on the campaign trail. Do we know what will happen to premiums when coverage standards are applied at the exchanges? Other possible outcomes: Capitation reducing healthcare supply or more medical practices opting out of the insurance program and going concierge/fee. My main disappointment and personal opinion is that this has been built on a political foundation(not the best approach). Personal responsibility and free market innovation in healthcare practices are needed along with some sensible catastrophic protections/ help for our most needy.
Jane Patla Tanner April 6, 2012 at 04:31 pm
From the World Health Organization's report entitled "World Health Statistics 2009":
The United States spends the most money in the world on its health care system, as a percentage of GDP, and ranks 37th in overall performance. Healthcare reform is a step in the right direction - I'm hopeful we are on our way to a universal, single payer system. May everyone live healthy, be healthy, and enjoy a long healthy life. :-)
Karsten Torch April 6, 2012 at 07:07 pm
Only problem with the WHOs report is that it grades based on what it calls humanitarian criteria, like access to free care and such. For the truly important numbers (to me, at any rate) like survivability rates for cancer and such, and length of wait for doctors, especially specialists, the US comes out best. We have the technology and the innovation that comes from having a free market system - or at least as free and we can still be with the current level of government involvement. I'd personally rather pay a bit and live, thank you....
John Wagner April 7, 2012 at 12:51 pm
The US probably spends the most as it uses the system more for all the reasons we know (entitlements...money doesnt come out of one's pocket, lawsuits resulting in more tests than what are needed, need for improved general heath, etc) . Insurance doesn't solve that. Having personal international experience, single payer can produce either capitation (reduced supply) and/or massive budget deficits. I do think "cost" is the better discussion to debate and how best to accomplish. In my view, innovations in how care is implemented, tort reform, and other new private marketplace innovations that foster competition will help drive down cost. Supported by consumer directed health plans like HSA's etc. along with a safety net for truly needy and those with severe medical problems can provide the answer. In substance, ACA is not going in this direction.
Mike NIfong April 9, 2012 at 09:47 pm
If I were as ignorant as the author of the screed, I wouldn't broadcast it to the world.
Simply pathetic.
Rick Smith June 26, 2012 at 02:19 pm
Anne - you hit it on the head! Do we go to our employer or government for homeowners insurance, or auto insurance? Of course not.
As for David's comment below that most people wouldn't do it - that's OK David. Your choice! But you get to live with the consequences of that decision. Maybe you'll come out ahead, maybe not. But we should all be responsible for our own health care.

Newsletter & Alerts

Get the best stories each day and important breaking news

Subscribe

Not from Snellville Patch? Find your Local Patch »

Note Article
Just a short thought to get the word out quickly about anything in your neighborhood.
Share something with your neighbors. Write a new post... What's up? Make an announcement, speak your mind, or sell something
David Brown June 18, 2013 at 11:06 am
It will take a little getting used to. I'm a little misoneistic at times.=)
Eric & Ruby Montgomery June 18, 2013 at 12:41 pm
It doesn't look as busy, but it will take some getting used to. I cannot seem to locate event postsRead More that I previously entered for my business.
Mike Stock June 19, 2013 at 09:07 am
I like it.